On this bonus episode, we revisit our talks with Jesse Brunner, Amy McKay, Eric Odberg and Chris Eckhart to hear them share their stories from the field.
Jesse Brunner
I’m the fifth generation. I want this farm to be around for my kids should they choose to farm. So what can I do to put us on the right path for that happening? I look at each field on a case-by-case and year-by-year basis and try and decide what it is I’m trying to address in this field, what are its challenges, what are its strengths. That affects things like my crop rotation choices, my herbicide choices, and just overall management.
The farm has been no-till since about late 90s, early 2000s. My dad started that, and I kind of picked up the torch where he left off and have continued down that path, trying to take things to the next level, take those next steps, just to kind of see. It’s a process of continual improvement. So it’s about the journey, not the destination. One of the challenges I’ve run into with no-till in a dryland environment is what I call the no-till suck cycle, which is where when you have a piece of ground which could be as small as a half an acre or as large as a whole field where you don’t get a good stand, and then the next year you don’t have a lot of residue left, which makes it harder to get a stand to the next crop around, and then the cycle repeats itself and it becomes very difficult to break.
I think one thing that frustrates me most when talking to other growers about things they’ve tried is you get different fields, different years, and I got totally different results. How can you expect to learn anything if you can’t control your variables?
When I do my trials, I really try to control as many of the variables as possible. I do a lot of strip trials, I try and get some replications in there. And then things like I have scales on my bank out wagon, which has been amazing.
I think the word’s gotten out that I’m a glutton for punishment when it comes to these kind of things. I’ve worked with the research community in the past to do cover crop trials, and that was really informative. Unfortunately, cover crop doesn’t seem to be real applicable to my area just yet, but learning that… I mean, a lot of times learning that something doesn’t work is just as valuable learning that it does. And so there’s been lots of opportunities in the past where I’ve worked with the research community to help kind of figure things out such as that. And that’s probably the one off the top of my head that jumps out to me the most was the cover crop trials.
But I’ve also done a lot of variety trials, which those are always interesting, mostly with canola. We’ve done some experiments with peaola in the past, which also has been very interesting. I’m optimistic that someone’s going to continue that research going forward, because I feel like that’s a crop that has potential for this area.
I want to have robust soil biology because I think that that helps me in the long run. You know, if you take care of the soil, it’ll take care of you. It lets me incorporate things in the soil that I haven’t been able to do in the past. And considering looking at compost tea going forward. And so, you know, that’s something I’d like to experiment with. Yeah, I think the big thing is, is acknowledging that it’s not dirt, it’s soil. It’s a living breathing thing too. And so you need to be cognizant of what it needs and trying to take care of it.
I think we always like to simplify things down to the point that’s like, okay, this practice is good or bad? Should I do this or should I not? And it’s not that simple. A lot of these practices, they might be the right thing to do 80% of the time or 50% of the time. And so it’s not as simple as does this work or is this the right thing to do? It’s figuring out when does this work? When is this the right thing to do? How can I know?
And, you know, the hard part is a lot of this is determined by what kind of year we have from a weather standpoint and you’re not going to know whether something was the right thing to do until long after it’s already been done. So I try and look at things and assign values. What is the probability this is the right thing to do? What is the benefit going to be? What is the cost going to be? Whether it’s successful or unsuccessful in that particular year, you know, and try and weigh all those things out and chart a path that way.
You know, I would be curious to try different crops. Sunflowers. I think those are really great. You know, the limitation right now is they don’t have any on-farm storage. And so when you harvest those, I can’t just haul them into my local elevator that’s five miles away. So they have to go to Spokane. That’s at least an hour and a half away. So without on-farm storage, there’s really no way for me to grow those.
Amy McKay
We started getting into no-till in maybe 2017. We purchased some ground that had previously been no-tilled. It had been in CRP for 20 years, 25 years. The owner then pulled it out and leased it to a guy that no tilled. So it went right from CRP into no till. And then the owner decided to sell and we ended up purchasing it and continued with the no-till. And so that was our first no-till experience. And it was very exciting to me because I’d been attending different grower meetings about no-till and that kind of thing. And I had asked my husband about why don’t we no-till? And he said, well, in the 80s, him and his dad watched people go broke no-tilling. And so it was hard for him to fathom that it could actually work. In those years, the technology has come a long way between the drills that they use the types of seed that we have that they utilize now.
Carol McFarland
Maybe even just the type of knowledge we can share.
Amy McKay
Yes, exactly. Because if I hadn’t been going to some of the grower meetings about this, I never would have brought it back to my husband saying, this can work. This can work. And it works. It works. But we’re not putting all of our eggs in one basket. So we still do some conventional farming, but we also do reduce tillage too, like a two-pass farming. So we go anywhere from no-till to a two-pass to conventional.
Carol McFarland
You have got an interesting story about how you came in to be a farm…You call yourself a “farm-her”, right?
Amy McKay
Farm-her, yes.
Carol McFarland
And do you want to tell just the quick story about how you came to be on this farm?
Amy McKay
I lived in the Spokane area and I had met this guy gathering cattle on a ranch because I did horse cutting. But so I had met him gathering cattle and I was a hairdresser. But I had also grown up on a farm. I mean, we were dairy farmers when I was a kid. My dad is an agronomist or was an agronomist. He’s retired now. So I’d known about farming. We had a small alfalfa farm. We raised some cattle, pigs. But when I got invited to go gather cattle down here in the La Crosse area because I was my trainer was in Dusty.
I’ve done a couple of cover crops in actually one year and very small, small acres.
Carol McFarland
And I think you told me that this is called your granola patch.
Amy McKay
He calls it my granola patch. Yes, it is my granola patch.
Carol McFarland
So you run your cows on the granola patch?
Amy McKay
I did run my cows on the granola patch. So I did intercropping the very first year. the variety of wheat I plant is called Mela. M-E-L-A. And it’s a very drought tolerant wheat. They planted more in the maybe seven to nine inch rainfall. And I thought, I’m going to plant something out there that’s more drought tolerant because I am planting it with things that are going to take some of the moisture, right? Let me just tell you, you don’t put the cattle out on your crop until the wheat is big enough to tolerate the cattle being on it and pulling it up by the roots. Because we ended up having to seed it twice because they ate all the wheat first before they ate the rest of my cover crop.
We have a friend that has a Weed-It sprayer that they have decreased the amount of chemical they buy by over 90 percent. That is a whole lot of money to save. Even those Weed-It sprayers cost you not considering what the sprayer itself costs, but just the system to put on your sprayer is like fifteen hundred bucks a foot. When you have even that hundred foot sprayer, that’s one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Carol McFarland
Yeah, they’re not cheap. It’s nice that the conservation program seemed to be able to help offset some of those costs.
Amy McKay
It’s very helpful that they do offset the cost of new technology. And it’s not just that technology. I’m sure that our district would help somebody pay for a drone sprayer or a drone mapper and set up a system like we’re doing, but we’re doing it through the NRCS instead.
Eric Odberg
My great grandfather came here to this area back in 1894. He actually didn’t settle where we’re standing today. He settled about eight miles east of here. And so that was [the] original farmstead. And so my long time employee actually lives there at that farm and the farm that we’re at today. My grandfather purchased, like, in 1901 and [we] feel very blessed that they decided to settle here.
Carol McFarland
I had a really good time meeting Carl, your hired man who who has been with your family, since he was
Eric Odberg
16!
Carol McFarland
16! And is now 80 years old.
Eric Odberg
Yep. Yep. Still working, still productive and he knows a lot. So. Hard worker.
Carol McFarland
That’s a good guy to have around.
Eric Odberg
Yeah, he’s kind of like a mentor to me growing up.
Carol McFarland
Someone will have big shoes to fill, I’m sure.
Eric Odberg
Yeah, I have. I’ve had a hard time finding that person. I know it’s. You talked with other farmers and farmers that I work with, and it’s a constant struggle finding employees. It’ll be different.
Eric Odberg
15 years ago started doing a variable rate application and now that reduced fertilizer inputs another 15%. and I got that ground truthed by the research program that I was in, I was part of the REACCH project. It was called the Site Specific Climate Friendly Farming Project, and it was on ten acres.
It had 22 monitoring stations within that ten acres and really showed that what I was doing with variable rate was right on. That like my nitrogen use efficiency was 80%. And I mean, usually if you’re 50%, I mean that’s what the gold standard is. And so, um, by reducing your nitrogen and putting it where you need it, I think that really is what increases efficiency there with it.
It was a great project to be involved with, got just a tremendous amount out of it but then going forward just doing things to increase soil health, cover crops using more, you know, natural products and then just trying to reduce that fertilizer rate further then as well. I don’t know if we’ll ever get to the point of not having synthetic fertilizer.
I just don’t think that’s practical. I mean, we might have to at some point, but I just don’t at least not maybe not in my lifetime, but maybe!
I want to make sure that my yields are increasing and not really going after the top yield. That’s not my goal is to be the highest yielding grower in the Genesee area which is tough to do because it’s a pretty competitive area to be farming in and good soil. And you know, it’s really focusing on the marginal rate of return and that’s where reducing the fertilizer and still, getting an average yield is, my focus right now.
Carl Kupers and Fred Flemming, who started the company over 20 years ago, really, you know, they were cutting edge, way ahead of their time with the concepts behind Shepherd’s Grain being a source of a sustainable identity preservation.
Now everyone wants to know where the food comes from. Well, I mean, we -they did that from the start. Every pound of flour was- you were able to find out which farm, you know, that bag of flour came from. So having that verification and then having a third party verification with all the growers to ensure that they’re, you know, practicing sustainable production methods, that they are treating employees well, and then also having a wildlife preservation component to their farm.
Carol McFarland
There’s a lot in between the field and the eaters that that makes a big difference in cropping systems innovation and it does seem like Shepherd’s Grain was trying to take some of that stuff on and and also from what I understand, really try to tie your market price to the cost of production a bit more closely.
Carol McFarland
From what I understand, the third party certification that you mentioned is the Farmed Smart still?
Eric Odberg
No, we’re still doing the Food for the Alliance.
Eric Odberg
Thanks for reminding them about the cost of production. That’s another real cornerstone. Our base price of our wheat flour on is on the cost of production and it’s a very important part of the successful model that has been created there.
Chris Eckhart
Trying to make things pencil out is tough. So it’s better if you can just figure out how to, you know, grow a good crop, I think, and increase organic matter.
Just resources of where we’re getting that lime from. And he thought that maybe the sugar beet lime that he was using at the time probably wasn’t the best quality lime either, but it definitely comes down to logistics and trucking and that all of that just isn’t cheap.
And you got to make it, you know, feasible. And, you know, to take wheat ground, to turn it from, you know, 50 bushel ground into 60 bushel ground, you’re still limited on rainfall.
We’re not in an irrigated area. So we’re never really going for top yield as far as that goes. We’re really trying to manage input costs in our area and basically create the best net profit we can per acre. And so a lot of that comes down to managing, you know, fertilizer inputs, chemical inputs, and still trying to get, you know, a maximum yield out for what those inputs are.
Of the 42 landlords, we got most of them are all super cool people. So we don’t farm for them unless we have a good relationship with them. And they seem to be pretty understanding and we’ve created great relationships going forward.
Carol McFarland
Well, it sounds like you’re in a position where you’re really thinking about investing a lot in the ground that you’re working on.
Chris Eckhart
Yeah, yeah, they like seeing the cover crops. People always ask questions about the cover crops we’re doing. They love seeing that, you know, when’s our field going to be in a cover crop?
And those are fun conversations to have, you know, what is that growing out there? And, you know, oh my gosh, there’s so many bugs and so many butterflies and the birds love it. And we love the wildlife and yeah, so fun stuff.
We’ve been staying pretty consistent with this mix of radishes, turnips, Phacilias, sunflowers, mung beans, cow peas, field peas, sweet clover. And primarily like when we were looking at things when we were trying to address the resource concern in our field, we’re dealing with years of plow pans and the same type of crops, wheat on wheat on wheat rotations. And the radishes were something that we saw really breaking up those hard pans for us. Those roots going down four or five feet, pulling up nutrients from years gone past, stuff that the we just wouldn’t go down and get anymore and having really good results after having these radishes out there. But the radishes do better if we have a lot of other stuff with it. It seems like just as we’ve done a straight cover crop of radishes, it didn’t turn out that well. And when you plant a diverse mix, one thing I tell listeners on this podcast is do a whole field of cover crop and see what happens. Cause most of the Palouse I think is pretty varying soil types, varying terrain. And if they put a pretty diverse mix out there, get your brassicas, I’ve kept grasses out of my mix just from a management standpoint, but do some cool seasons, do some warm seasons and do some legumes, do some brassicas. Don’t put a cover crop in just to fix nitrogen.
Focus on breaking up a hard pan or creating biological diversity or something like that in your soil. Besides just fixing nitrogen. Cause of all the guys I’ve heard, we did field peas, we did clover, it failed, it burned up moisture. Do something diverse and get a big mix out there. And I think you’ll be amazed at what you see take off in different parts of the field.
Carol McFarland
You said, phacilia. That’s not something that I’ve heard always in some of these mixed cover crop blends. Can you talk a little bit about your choice of adding that in?
Chris Eckhart
I’d seen in a few other people’s mixes of how it really helped with just diversity and biology in the soil and the pollinators also liked it. And so I’m like, okay, we’ll try it. It turns out it worked great. So for our soil type and in our situation, it worked out good. So we’ve kept it in there every year now.
Carol McFarland
I’ve seen it as a great pollinator attractor.
Chris Eckhart
Yeah, it’s a beautiful, beautiful plant. But easy to control too. It’s not invasive.
Carol McFarland
Awesome. All right, Chris, do you have kids?
Chris Eckhart
I do have kids. I have four girls.
Carol McFarland
Do they like to farm?
Chris Eckhart
They do. Yeah, they do like to farm. They love spending time out on the tractor and being out in
the field and seeing the plants and all that, so, yeah.
Carol McFarland
Do you think they’ll farm?
Chris Eckhart
I hope so. Yeah. I hope so.
Carol McFarland
Do you think things will be different on your farm and in the ag space when it’s their turn?
Chris Eckhart
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I hope that it’s a positive environment. I hope that people learn to talk
more and have more of these conversations and not be so polarized on, you know, their ideas
of how farming should be, so.
Carol McFarland
Great. Well, we have one of your girls here with us right now, don’t we?
Chris Eckhart
We do.
Carol McFarland
Okay. We were talking a little bit about farming and you had a question for her.
Chris Eckhart
So, Eva, in your opinion, what do you like better? Do you like farming with like tractors and machines or do you like farming with animals more?
Eva Eckhart
I think I like farming with tractors more. Yeah. Just because they smell a lot better and you can go on a vacation and you don’t have to worry about if they have enough food or water.
Chris Eckhart
Okay. That’s great.
Carol McFarland
I think that’s probably a shared sentiment among a lot of farmers. Now, your sister had a little bit of a different perspective.
Chris Eckhart
Yeah, Charlotte definitely enjoys the animal aspect. The fact that they have babies and they’re making noise and all of that. So, yeah.
Carol McFarland
Eva, do you like the cover crops?
Eva Eckhart
I do. I like going out and collecting all the sunflowers and then we like to eat the radishes. So, that’s really fun.
Carol McFarland
Awesome. Are you gonna come back to the farm?
Eva Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
Or just never leave?
Eva Eckhart
Probably come back.
Carol McFarland
That’s a good plan. Awesome. Well, maybe I’ll come back. Hopefully I’ll be back in like 20 years and be like, what are you trying on the farm? Hopefully you keep the legacy going.
Eva Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
We’ve got Charlotte here.
Chris Eckhart
Charlotte. Hey, Charlotte. So, what do you think? You like farming better with tractors or animals?
Charlotte Eckhart
Animals.
Chris Eckhart
What do you like about the animals?
Charlotte Eckhart
There’s baby sheep and they’re so fluffy.
Chris Eckhart
Yeah, so we did have sheep at one point and we might be getting sheep back on our farm again. So.
Carol McFarland
Awesome. Do you think you’re gonna come back and be a farmer?
Charlotte Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
Definitely?
Charlotte Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
Awesome.
Chris Eckhart
Okay, Allison, so I’m going to ask you now: would you rather farm crops with tractors or pastures with animals?
Allison Eckhart
Tractors with crops.
Chris Eckhart
Really? Okay. Alright.
Chris Eckhart
Why’s that?
Allison Eckhart
‘Cause I like riding in tractors and I like to drive combines when it’s, like, harvest.
Chris Eckhart
Alright!
Carol McFarland
Do you like to work on tractors?
Allison Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
Yeah? Do you like the wrench and the grease and all that?
Allison Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
Yeah? Awesome.
Allison Eckhart
Except for when they break down.
Carol McFarland
That’s true. Do you think you’re going to come back and farm when you’re a grown up?
Allison Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
Yeah? Awesome. Good luck.
Chris Eckhart
Okay, Penny, I’m going to ask you now: do you like tractors better or animals better?
Penny Eckhart
Animals.
Chris Eckhart
What do you like better about animals?
Penny Eckhart
Horses.
Chris Eckhart
Oh, you like horses? Okay. So you want to be a cowgirl?
Penny Eckhart
Yeah.
Carol McFarland
So, you really are all farming together, aren’t you?
Chris Eckhart
For the most part, yeah.
Carol McFarland
It’s a good place to be.
Chris Eckhart
Yeah.